Daily Excerpt: How to Argue with an Atheist (Brink) - Step #1: Affirm that people are values-centered
excerpt from How to Argue with an Atheist (Brink) -
STEP #1: I affirm that people are values-centered.
STUDENT: Dr. Brink? Do you remember me? I came by last
week and we talked about religion.
BRINK: Of course, but as I said last time, to give you the
entire answer as to why I am religious or why you should be religious is not
something that we should attempt all at once. We need to approach this topic one
step at a time.
STUDENT: So, where do we start?
BRINK: My first point is that humans are values-oriented
beings. They seek values, uphold values, and when they are not oriented by
values, they fall into alienation.
STUDENT: That sounds like Chapter 13 on social
psychology.
BRINK: My, you have read ahead in your psychology textbook.
STUDENT: So, what's the next point?
BRINK: Don't be so quick to agree with me. If we have not
fully established step #1, then we do not have a good footing for the next
step. We need to break down step #1 into several sub-steps. In order for you to
agree with the statement that humans are values-oriented beings you would have
to agree to the following:
- that you exist;
- that other people exist;
- that you are oriented to values; and
- that other people are oriented to values
STUDENT: Like religion?
STUDENT: OK, I acknowledge that
- I exist;
- Other people exist;
- I am oriented to values; and
- Other people are oriented to values.
Can you agree to all of those?
STUDENT:
I think so.
BRINK: Not so fast. Think them through. Wrestle with them.
You have to convince yourself to move beyond those doubts before we can tackle
the greater questions about God.
STUDENT: OK, I know that I exist because, how did
Descartes put it: if I doubt that I exist, that must prove that I, the doubter,
must exist in order for there to be somebody who is around to do the doubting.
BRINK: Good tie in to philosophy. That is all that the great
theologians have done, take some of the points of philosophy and tie them into
an ongoing understanding of God: Aquinas in medieval Catholicism, Maimonides in
Judaism, Averroes in Islam, all turned to Aristotle's philosophy in order to
better understand God.
STUDENT:
They must have been very well educated about Aristotle.
BRINK: They were. You see, not all religious people are
ignorant.
STUDENT:
Yeh .. so much for what I said last time.
BRINK: Now, back to our point: you now have no doubts about
your own existence?
STUDENT:
No doubts; I can move on.
BRINK: You know that you exist and you can go on with your
life, making daily decisions on the basis of your existence?
STUDENT:
Right, I'll never hesitate over that question. I exist. I am alive, and so I
will make daily decisions in order to stay alive and make my life better.
BRINK: But how could you prove that you exist to someone
outside of you?
STUDENT:
Well, I don't know how I would prove that I do exist to someone external, but
it just makes more sense to me to act as if I do exist, and that I do have a
future, at least until I die.
BRINK: The bottom line, therefore, is that you accept your
own existence as a basic foundation for your life, even though some critics
might question your standard of proof.
STUDENT:
Exactly.
BRINK: Perhaps some day you will have the same grounding of
knowledge, the same profound certainty about the existence of God. Then you
will no longer hesitate over that question, and you will be able to make daily
decisions in order to make your spiritual life better.
STUDENT:
Wow, I never thought of it that way. You mean some people don't ever doubt the
existence of God, but just accept Him and go on living their lives?
BRINK: Like we said last time: doubt is not that bad, but it
is something that most people grow out of as they become responsible adults and
have to get on with their lives.
STUDENT: I have to think about that.
BRINK: Yes, take some time to think about it and really get
established on this step before we jump to another.
STUDENT:
The second sub-step for today was something about accepting the existence of
other people.
BRINK: Right. Can you do that?
STUDENT:
Oh sure.
BRINK: Not so fast. How do you know that other people exist?
Your Cartesian analysis will not prove their existence.
STUDENT:
I had a girlfriend once who raised these kinds of questions. I thought it was
silly to keep asking if other people exist.
BRINK: Why? What is wrong with me doubting that something
outside of my own consciousness exists?
STUDENT: I can see other people, hear them talk, and touch
them.
BRINK: That sounds like an empirical approach.
STUDENT: Right, empiricism, the method of science. We are
just starting to cover that in Chapter 2 of the psychology book. Yeh, I am very
scientific. I hope to major in chemistry. That's one of the reasons why I am an
agnostic: you cannot see God or touch Him.
BRINK: I agree with you that empirical research methods are
not appropriate for proving the existence of God. We will return to that point,
perhaps in a couple of more steps of our journey, but right now I just want to
make sure that we have adequately covered the step we are on.
STUDENT:
I am convinced that other people do exist.
BRINK: But how do you know? What proof is there that anyone
or anything outside of your own mind exists? Chapter 5 of the psychology book
talks about hallucinations: seeing or hearing things in the absence of a
physical stimulus. How do you know that your perceptions of other people are
real? Perhaps they are just figments of your imagination.
STUDENT:
Yes, but the psychology book also says that hallucinations are found in altered
states of consciousness like drugs, dreams, or in mental disorders like
schizophrenia or delirium.
BRINK: And you are certain that you are not in one of those
altered states of consciousness?
STUDENT:
No ... I mean yes, I am certain that I am not hallucinating. I don't use drugs,
I am not dreaming, and I don't meet the DSM diagnostic criteria for either
delirium or schizophrenia.
BRINK: We would not let the patient diagnose himself, but
let me agree with you that you do not appear to be hallucinating.
STUDENT: So, have I now convinced you that other people
exist?
BRINK: The important thing is not whether you have convinced
me, but whether you have convinced yourself.
STUDENT:
OK, I am thoroughly convinced that I am not the only person who exists. I
accept that other people also exist. It just doesn't make sense to think that
everything I hear and see is only the product of my imagination.
BRINK: Agreed, otherwise our whole conversation would make
no sense. You would be just having an imaginary conversation with a
hallucination.
STUDENT:
It's much healthier to accept reality, to try to communicate with other people,
instead of going into your own private delusional world.
BRINK: Agreed, so you accept the existence of others....
BRINK: because you have decided that it is healthier to
interact with them, to communicate with them, to attempt to find relevance in
what they say, rather than ignore them and retreat to your own private world.
STUDENT:
Exactly.
BRINK: Perhaps some day you will have the same view of God,
that it is healthier to interact with Him, to communicate with Him, to find
relevance in what He has said, rather than ignore Him and retreat to your own
private world.
STUDENT:
Wow, I never thought about it that way. ... But I guess I have a few more steps
to go before I get to thinking about God like He was a real person.
BRINK: Right, let's just focus on the first step today. The
third sub-step is to affirm that you seek values.
STUDENT:
Oh, yeh, I admit that. That's why I am going to school here: to better my life.
BRINK: So, you have no difficulty making a judgment and
saying that some things are better than others?
STUDENT: Right. My present job is working for UPS, and
the pay is OK, it’s a little boring, but it is better than working in fast
food. I am majoring in chemistry because I could get a more interesting, better
paying job in that field. It would also prepare me to be a doctor or a dentist,
or even a patent attorney if I wanted to go to law school.
BRINK: You have gotten some good career advice. I hope you
can stick with the chemistry major. It is quite challenging with all the math
and the lab work, but it does offer many advantages. The important thing for
the point we are making today is that you looked at the advantages, the
benefits, the values associated with majoring in chemistry, and you decided to
take those courses.
STUDENT: Yes, I am a values-seeking being.
BRINK: and some day you may see the values associated with
God, and may seek Him.
STUDENT:
Maybe, but that sounds like it is a few steps along in our discussion.
BRINK: And the fourth sub-step for today is to accept that
other people are also values-oriented beings.
STUDENT:
I can accept that also. That is sort of like admitting that other people exist.
I also see them signing up for classes, and so I infer (to use the term in your
psychology course) that the other students must also be driven by values.
BRINK: But not everyone in your high school graduating class
has gone on to college, so obviously they do not all share the same values that
you do.
STUDENT:
No, some of my friends went into the military. They were really patriotic and
valued discipline. Then there are some others that I was not very close to:
they are just bumming around surfing, skiing or partying.
BRINK: Could you say that those guys are not values-oriented
beings?
STUDENT:
No, maybe they just have different values.
BRINK: So you admit that other people exist, and that they
have values, even if their values are not the values that you have accepted.
STUDENT: Right, I don't think that I would get along that
well in the military with all that external discipline. I like to figure out
what to do for myself and not get bossed around, but for other people, they may
prefer that kind of external discipline. And those guys who are just bumming
around, or into drugs, they are doing things that they find exciting or
interesting, but I would not.
BRINK: I share many of your values. Obviously, I too favor
education over a life of drugs. However, I might have some values that you do
not share.
BRINK: That would be one value difference that we currently
have, but there might be others. For example, when I was in my early twenties,
I did not appreciate the value of having a spouse, children or extended family.
I said that I did not want to tie myself down. Obviously, I changed my mind and
married at age 26. Now, I consider my family ties to be some of my most
important values.
STUDENT: So, are you saying that my values might change?
BRINK: Many of your core values will remain fairly stable
throughout the span of your life, but you might have a religious awakening and
in a few years see the relevance of God in your life even though that is not a
value that you currently cherish. But that, too, is a few steps further along
our journey. Let's just review what we have said today.
BRINK: Are you certain on all these points?
STUDENT: Certain ... well just say that I am certain
enough to go on with my life not plagued by these doubts.
BRINK: Same time next week?
STUDENT:
Yes, I'll be ready for the next step. ... But, I am just curious, suppose I had
given you more resistance on some of these points. Would that have been the end
of our journey investigating personal religion?
BRINK: That would not make religion irrelevant, but it might
influence which type of religion you found most relevant.
STUDENT:
Suppose I had never heard of Descartes and I did not agree that I existed.
BRINK: That sounds like certain schools of Buddhism, such as
Zen, and by doubting your own existence you are well on your way to achieving
Nirvana (i.e., release from the suffering of the illusory self). Of course,
speaking from a clinician's perspective, you told me that you had doubts about
your own existence I would suggest a diagnosis of the dissociative disorder
known as depersonalization.
STUDENT:
Suppose I had said, I exist, but I don't think that other people exist because
I cannot prove their existence.
BRINK: Over two thousand years ago Hindu gurus wrote the
Upanishads and came to the conclusion that the only thing that existed was one
mind. Everything else -- you, me, the animals, plants, and rocks -- were merely
a hallucination of that one mind.
STUDENT: Wow. Then whose mind did they say it was?
BRINK: God's. The Hindu name for Him is Brahman. The Hindu
religion seeks to re-integrate man with the reality of the God-mind within.
STUDENT:
Were the Hindus the only ones who came to that conclusion?
BRINK: About the same time a similar path was pursued by
Chinese Daoists. One of them reported that he had a marvelous dream one night
that he was a butterfly happily moving from flower to flower, and when he
awoke, he wondered if he was the man who had dreamed that he had been a
butterfly, or a butterfly now dreaming that he was a man.
STUDENT:
That really is another way to look at reality.
BRINK: That is what religion can do for you, give you
another perspective on reality and your
values.
STUDENT:
But what if I had refused the point about values orientation? Suppose I said
that I am not motivated by any values?
BRINK: No values? Nothing turns you on?
STUDENT:
Yeh, suppose I had said that I cannot get turned on by anything: school,
parties, video games, sex ... nothing?
BRINK: As a clinician I would classify that as anhedonia,
and look for other DSM symptoms of depression, and prescribe Cognitive-Behavior
Therapy and Prozac.
STUDENT:
Yes, but you would have to get a psychiatrist to prescribe the Prozac ...
BRINK: ... because only medical doctors can prescribe
medication, and I am a psychologist, not a psychiatrist. Good review for
tomorrow's quiz. See you next week. Same time, same day, but a new step.
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